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A FANDOM User
• 6/21/2017

Time Travel

Does the protomolecule have the abilty to time travel? (this mainly is about Julies hallucenation in Season one of the show)

Is the hallucenation in the TV show of Miller rescueing Julie from Julie's perscpective? or maybe Miller

Is it even a halluncenation or the Protomolecule weaving through time?

I listened to the podcast The Churn, which has Ty Frank and Daniel Abraham on every episode. At some point they start talking about Julie's hallucenation.  Then, in the Thomas Jane interview, they talk about the protomolecules abilty to weave thru time.

As some one who has re listened to the books many times, this was never really mentioned. I understand the TV show is different but maybe i lost someting in the books.

Also I understand the Systems on the other sides of the ring gate, are confused by where they are and also when they are, they think they are in the Milky Way Galaxy. So maybe thats like some time travel. Also, in the books the Protomolecule can relay information over vast distances instantly, but doesnt go back in time...

What I though happened in the Julie Hallucentation was, we know juile and the protomolecule never died comepletely.  It was aware of the people entering the room, and then put together some stuff in Julies Concience to work, (mostly what she was thinking before she died) and put it together with the surroundings, mainly Miller.

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• 6/21/2017

That scene bothers me in the show, though the impression I got was more supernatural than time travel (which, I guess is itself supernatural...). Also the blue firefly bird that guides Miller to Julie at the end of the show.

To answer your question: possibly. There appears to be simultaneous communication between aspects of the protomolecule during the Caliban's War. The Miller simulation freaks out when the Neo opens up the gate, and the UN notice spikes of energy output from Venus coinciding with the Ganymede incident, the destruction of the hybrid on the Rocinante, and when Tycho nukes the remainder of the hybrids (which kicks off the launch of the gate's components, if I remember correctly).

This is evidence for time travel, as far as physics is concerned: you have simultaneous and correlated events that are space-like separated. That is, the time that it takes for these connected events to happen is smaller than they could be physically connected via light. This means that relativity is out the window and time travel  is possible. Of course, when one worries about relativity, and especially simultaneity of events, worrying about relative motion is always required. However, all observers are, more or less, in the same reference frame and I'm fairly certain there isn't a frame where these events could appear simultaneous from the UN's perspective.

However, I do not know if the authors are purposefully doing this because time-travel, in more conventional sense (a la Doctor Who), or if this was to enhance the creepy factor of what was happening on Venus. As far as I have seen in the books, there hasn't been any evidence for time travel in the conventional sense, but it's always hard to figure out the rules a story is playing by once reality is out the window.

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• 6/21/2017

Adding to Orthochronicities very good answer and picking up the question of "when and where" are the systems on the other side of the ring gates.

We may assume (poetic license) that the systems at the other end are not causally connected through normal space, thus removing the need for worrying about the acausalities created by combining wormholes and special relativuity.

Indeed wormholes are at odds with physics in many aspects. They are allowed (in principle) by general relativity, this is why people seriously think about them, but when placed in the context of special realtivity wormholes equate time travel. Wormholes create havoc in quantum mechanics (largely because of the timelike curves they allow).

From the perspective of a todays theoretical physics those discreapancies in otherwise good and proven theories suggest that we are missing something essential about either gravity and quantum mechanics. 

So while there is no time travel in the strict sense in The Expanse the author plays with the idea of the prot-molecules using physics extending our understanding of gravity in general and special relativity. The proto-moelcule can manipulate space directly to accelerate and object. E.g. in the first book, when Ceres suddenly starts moving within a visible driving force, the crew of the Roccinante discovers that Ceres heats up t a rate consistent with energy dissipated by a drive. They comment: "At least it cannot do magic. Thermodynamics still applies."

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A FANDOM User
• 9/9/2017

Remember that protomiller's original disjointed conversations with Holden ended up being weird echoes of the actual conversation they had in a context that was unique to the situation it happened in. I got a strong impression of some timey-wimey weirdness from that.

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• 9/9/2017
I fiercely believe ''The Expanse'' will stick to the scientific fact that time travel is utterly impossible.
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A FANDOM User
• 9/9/2017

The Expanse has faster than light traveL. Relativity, FTL, causality. Choose two. As best we can tell, the very act of sending information to a place faster than its light could travel there is a potential causality violation.

So if you want the scientific fact that time travel is impossible to hold, there either needs to be a version of relativity that matches both the confirmed predictions we know about and the existence of faster than light travel which doesn't violate causality.

Personally, I don't think that's going to be reconcilable and I expect that the black bullet is going to turn out to be an ontological paradox.

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• 9/9/2017

I was wondering when someone would bring that up. There are ways through which apparent faster-than-light travel might hold attainable within both relativity and causality. Either special relativity is incomplete and only an approximation to a more general theory (not GR), which might state that at universal scales, there is an universal frame of reference, or the CPC might actually reconcile or protect true causality through a process unknown today (i.e. only apparent causal violations will be possible, as dictated by SR, but in reality, causality will never be truly violated. This could be achieved by having wormholes which would be censored by the CPC - the moment one could use a wormhole to travel back in tine, the energetic buildup inside the wormhole might reach infinity and completely collapse it. Causality is, thus, preserved. This would mean that only one-way trips through the same wormhole are possible. That is not the case in The Expanse. The way I understand it, wormholes do not collapse once matter finishes transiting through it).

Edit: I apologize. You too mentioned the first option (Relativity is incomplete). Sorry for not completely reading your comment the first time.

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